Further to my disappointment with Lime Crime I e-mailed them, with a very lousy attempt at subterfuge to find out if they make their own colours, or not. The respondent replied quickly asking if I was the author of this article. I decided to come clean (I was surprised they'd even noticed it) and the following correspondence ensued.
Dear Mark,
Anastasia
Aug 27 (8 days ago)
Thank you for your prompt reply. Indeed, I am. Make a pretty terrible spy, wouldn't I?
I'm surprised a blog as small as mine makes a blip on your radar, but I assume that's because you track links. So, yes, I was hoping that LC did at least blend some colours and they weren't all carbon-copies, or perhaps the company has a response to one extremely dissatisfied customer, who feels incredibly misled by such an immersive and seemingly unique brand?
-Anastasia
Hi Anastasia,
Lime Crime Makeup
Aug 27 (8 days ago)
The observation you made is an example of how competitors follow and try to imitate something that's been successful. Colors cannot be legally protected so there isn't much we can do about that. However, we can continue moving forward, offer new products and hopefully set new trends - exactly what we are trying to do with our upcoming lipstick line, Candyfuture.
http://www.doedeereblogazine.com/articles/yes-she-did
I think you're a talented blogger who writes well and most importantly gives truthful opinions. If you would be interested in reviewing our lipstick (color of your choice), please let me know and I'll be happy to hook you up!
-Mark
Hi Mark,
Anastasia
Aug 28 (8 days ago)
I am up to date on the lipstick line - I read the blogazine often, and am still curious about it. As I say, I was certainly hoping to see a lot more originality from Lime Crime (and certainly not to end up with identical shades) so I still hold out hope for the lipsticks, although I do believe I'm now sworn off the eye products. I'll make a note to post your response to my readers, to present both sides, so to speak. That's not to say I'm going to endorse it or am entirely convinced. Still, irrespective of who came first - if I can get essentially the same product for $4 an ounce as opposed to $168 an ounce, it's not a particularly tricky decision.
The trouble is, it seems to me that when consumers buy Lime Crime products, they're not just paying for the brand name or product, they're paying for the expertise. Xenia appears as a woman who is independent, fashionable, and has her unique sense of style and flair - we put stock in her opinion and there is an unspoken expectation that any product she backs, is going to be something which benefits from her style and expertise. Something she, personally, has had a hand in creating. Of course, the website doesn't promise this, it is just my inference, and is definitely a triumph of marketing either way.
Thank you for the compliment; being called truthful is probably the nicest thing anyone can say to me. I think lying on your own blog is tantamount to deluding yourself, and would defeat the entire purpose of writing one.
Your point about trend-setting is a good one, and if nothing else, Lime Crime certainly does that. The content (blogazine, tutorials, Xenia's persona) it produces (even if it is just to benefit the business) contributes something entertaining and colourful to the cosmetic world. I'd be very interested in reviewing a lipstick - D'lilac probably, since good pale lilacs are few and far between, and I do hope that they are what we're hoping for - something new, high quality and unique.
-Anastasia
I haven't heard anything since, and for me, the jury's still out on Lime Crime. I haven't tried any lipsticks from wholesalers or mineral companies, so I have no idea if the Lime Crime ones will be unique or not, but the colours look promising. I certainly hope they're a new, unique product which lives up to the expectations I had for Lime Crime.
Personally, I feel like it's important for us to value our money, and choose what we spend it on carefully. Supporting re-packaging companies means that we're devaluing the time, effort and hard work that went into earning our pennies, when we just throw them away on something we could have had much cheaper. For that reason, I started to investigate the other mineral make-up company I've given a lot of business to, Beauty from the Earth.
I dug out all the wonderful TKB micas that T.R. sent me and compared them to my Beauty from the Earth minerals, looking for other very close duplicates.
Bearing in mind that I chose the BftE stuff I have and T.R. chose the TKB Trading, and the huge number of micas available, there could be many, many more matches if I actually looked for them on TKB and bought the appropriate samples to test (something I plan to do in the future).
As it is, I found the following three extremely close matches:
BftE Grape = TKB Grape Pop!
BftE Emerald = TKB Cyprus Green
BftE Mermaid = TKB Mermaid's Gold
BftE Emerald = TKB Cyprus Green
BftE Mermaid = TKB Mermaid's Gold
They looked identical on my hand, except Mermaid was slightly darker than Mermaid's Gold. All had the same pearl/duo-colour. Any other differences in the photo will be because of the lighting.
There's another TKB mica which is very, very close to Mermaid and Mermaid's Gold, but a tiny bit lighter and less yellow, called Zion Views, which I forgot to swatch. They're all so close in colour I forgot which was which on my hand!
T.R. is very kindly sending me some more TKB samples, and I'll be buying my own at some point to try and match them to my BftE stash, as well as any colours that take my fancy!
[UPDATE: Beauty from the Earth have now labelled all their repackaged colours and discontinued the vast majority of them. The ones left are labelled as Primary Pigments. They also make over 175 of their own, unique colours.]
There's another TKB mica which is very, very close to Mermaid and Mermaid's Gold, but a tiny bit lighter and less yellow, called Zion Views, which I forgot to swatch. They're all so close in colour I forgot which was which on my hand!
T.R. is very kindly sending me some more TKB samples, and I'll be buying my own at some point to try and match them to my BftE stash, as well as any colours that take my fancy!
[UPDATE: Beauty from the Earth have now labelled all their repackaged colours and discontinued the vast majority of them. The ones left are labelled as Primary Pigments. They also make over 175 of their own, unique colours.]



25 comments:
I laughed so hard when I read this..."The observation you made is an example of how competitors follow and try to imitate something that's been successful".
5 September 2009 01:42Really d bag? (not you, Mark) Cause I'm pretty sure that TKB is a WHOLESALER...which means they SELL you the product, you put crappy filler in it and SELL it to us? I'll never buy lime crime. Boo on them!
The two companies I buy most from, The She Space and Aromaleigh, don't seem to be re-packagers. Both companies have insane amounts of colors, so at least I know they are mixing them up themselves!
I'm very curious about getting some TKB colors now. There are so many to choose from, its a bit overwhelming!
Well, at least you got a $20 lipstick out of it! (I don't think I could pay that much for a lipstick, I'm such a cheapskate!)
Yes, I thought something along those lines, and noticed he didn't actually answer the question.
5 September 2009 02:38I'm not going to buy from any mineral company anytime soon, I'm going to stick to my wholesale micas until I'm more familiar with the colours, and try mixing some of my own.
And hopefully, I'd really like to try their lipsticks, to see if they are what I was hoping their eyeshadow would be. I'm sure you'd all be interested to hear *that* review.
It's one thing to repackage minerals from wholesale sites and resell 'em, if that's just what Lime Crime were doing it'd be morally OK, though way overpriced, but these emails plus what they say on their site are such a pack of lies it's enough to turn me off all their products in future. Witness this heap of garbage:
5 September 2009 09:15"Miss Deere conceptualized Lime Crime during the summer 2008 upon realizing she could never find cosmetics bright enough to keep pace with her colorful imagination. And so, when all makeup companies ran one way, Lime Crime charged headlong into the rainbow. Under the slogan “So Bright, It’s Illegal!”, the brand wowed customers with high-impact loose eye shadows such as Circus Girl (vivid yellow), Shoe Addict (bright blue) and the signature Lime Criminal. Instead of retreating to the safety of the ‘tried and true’, Lime Crime became the first cosmetic line to successfully establish themselves through innovative strategies and offering a unique product. Within months of operation, Lime Crime became synonymous with unapologetically bright makeup."
It would be easy, if you didn't know much about mineral makeup and suppliers, to think that she was developing her eye products herself, I remember reading on her blog that she developed her shadows by corresponding with a "factory", suggesting that Lime Crime is totally unique. If her claims were true, TKB would not have the exact same shades, nor would these same shades have PREDATED Lime Crime.
To suggest that the dupes are a result of other companies wishing to duplicate Lime Crime is not only a flat out lie, it is an insult to the talented people who have developed the colours in the first place, and offered them at a fantastically generous price. LC are currently making a killing using someone else's product, they owe a lot to these people and what they do in return is smear their good name in order to protect theirs.
That's not only appalling, it's also laughable to anyone with half a brain! Lime Crime is a young company, they haven't even been around for a year, whereas their oh so unique micas have been around a lot longer. It's kind of hard to pin being a copy cat on someone when their version predates yours.
The new lipstick collection may be the first unique thing LC have ever put out, and some of the colours look great, but this is one potential customer they've managed to totally turn off. How can I be sure that if I spend $16 a pop on a lipstick from them, that I won't see it's twin for $4 elsewhere? I don't want to pay through the nose for a holographic sticker. I can't put money into a brand I no longer trust.
The thing I love most about writing this blog is people like you, Anon. Unlike some other beauty blogs, mine seems to attract the cream of the crop - the smart, discerning reader who has her own thoughts, opinions, cynicism and whose comments extend beyond "Oooh pretty".
5 September 2009 16:01That paragraph certainly does seem to encourage the assumption that Xenia is personally responsible for the colours they produce, I agree. The signature lime crime shade is a joke, not only is it identical to a BftE one, but BftE do a slightly different shade which is very close but actually BRIGHTER and a lot nicer.
It would be an out an out lie to say that she made it because she couldn't find anything brighter, if it was already on the market.
I don't blame you for your hostility. It seems like blatant extortion. I think it was a very smart answer, he didn't specifically accuse either brand, or mention them by name, he didn't answer my question and he managed to push their new lipstick line.
Since I'm into advertising, I have a certain admiration for the whole brand of Lime Crime, I love the tutorials, the blog, the whole look of everything, the little stories each colour has. I just wish that their product lived up to the great expectations all that makes. It's sad, and it wouldn't be hard for them to at least blend their own colours, they have so few.
I'm not sure how new LC are, I know I bought my BftE stuff last year. I'm sure TKB have had them much longer. And I share a similar concern about the lipsticks. If I do get a free one, naturally, I hope that it would be amazing and I'd love it so I could give it a good review and companies would want to send me things, ahaha.
Sadly, the downside of being honest is that I know if I hate it, I'm going to say so. My integrity has a much higher price than the odd freebie, after all.
I don't know anything about mineral makeup lipsticks, but maybe I should investigate x]
Thanks Phyrra ;O I'm more wanting to research mineral lipsticks so that I can see if LC's are unique or not, aha, so I'll be looking at wholesalers rather than ones I know are unique.
6 September 2009 00:05I'm sticking with TKB colours for the mean time because they're cheap and cheerful, but eventually I'll look into the companies on your list and see if they have colours I want. I'm really interested in Archtype, they had some incredible sounding shades I might have to try out.
Just let me know what Archetype colors you want to see, if I have them I'll either do looks with them or swatch them for you :) I should just break down and swatch all the ones have and do a video on them.
6 September 2009 03:39I think they can only be fully appreciated with a sticky base underneath, like a MAC paint pot or nyx jumbo eye pencil.
I'm definitely interested in seeing what your research turns up :)
xoxo
I'm glad you got a lipstick out of it, but I don't really like the way Mark answered (well, actually he didn't) your question.
6 September 2009 20:17It'd be ok if they admitted they are a repackaged seller (and didn't charge so much for a small jar of eyeshadow), but everything on their website makes you think they make their own colors when they don't. What Mark wrote infers that too, but he doesn't explicity say it cos that would be a lie.
I hope their lipstick line will be unique, but even if it was I doubt I'd ever buy from them cos I just can't trust them anymore.
Gio, you just summed up exactly how I feel.
6 September 2009 20:18I love that before they responded to your email, they had to check your identity to see if your ass was worth kissing. I wonder if you didn't have a blog, if they would have just blown you off completely!
7 September 2009 04:57But wow, for them to accuse their supplier of copying them is beyond shady. If I were you, I wouldn't accept the lipstick for review. They are not doing you a favor as they want you to think. Rather, they are using you for publicity. Why support a company that obviously lacks business ethic and morals?
I was actually going to mention Archetype as well, they have a couple hundred shades, and they're all so multi-faceted, I can't imagine they're wholesale. I have a good 30-40 of the shades myself (sample spree) and I'd be happy to swatch for you too, though like I said, they're all multi-faceted (not just duo-chrome, like quadro-chrome!) and mostly very shimmery/sparkly, so I don't think photos do them justice. I do agree w/ Phyrra, they need a base if you apply them dry, but they do foil very well also.
7 September 2009 10:19I will caution that when I ordered, it took FOREVER, and their communication isn't the best either. It's best to order them and then forget it- for you overseas, it'll probably take 2 months to get an order.
BTW, if you haven't seen it, there is a review as well as and a look on my blog!
Anon,
7 September 2009 15:21I'm not sure I get enough traffic to warrant any part of me worth kissing...
The cynic in me hates them, the copywriter in me admires the brand they've built, and the kid in me really, really wants the lipsticks to be great, in much the same way that I wish unicorns and fairies were real and that I could fly.
I'm sure that's their motivation for sending one, but I'd hope they know enough about me to know that I'll review it honestly. If it's bad, then I feel my readers would benefit from knowing that, and perhaps save their money.
Equally, if it's good, then what's wrong in saying that? Yes, it's good for LC, but it's also good for anyone who's been looking for a lipstick like that if they choose to get one.
Free products are a dodgy area for any blogger, but I feel that as long as I review them honestly with a degree of impartiality then I'm all right.
That really puts me off, Jessica. Well, especially as I'll have moved in a month, so I better not order anything for a good long while.
7 September 2009 15:22I'm going to go check out that look since I'm curious, I don't want them to be like, obnoxiously glittery or anything, but some complex colours would be nice.
I am the owner of BFTE.
8 September 2009 17:21I can tell you that when we first started the company that we did sale the same colors as other companies. Since then we have began to make our own colors. I have personally formulated over 100colors on our site. I even take request from customers as to what colors they would like to see us sale. This has lead to us adding a line of matte eyeshadows, new blush colors,a nd new foundation colors.
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Just email me.
Thanks,
Crystal
Thank you, Crystal.
8 September 2009 21:04I suspected that you made some of your own, I remember buying Caribbean from you (and loving it) and you saying that it was a colour requested by someone. You have so many colours, it's good to know that some are mixed and unique.
I haven't found my favourite BftE colour, Mint, anywhere else and it's good to know that we're benefiting from your experience when we buy.
We had thought about discontinuing our "stock colors" but at the request of some of our customers we are keeping them. You can look for up to 500 new custom made colors from us in the next year.
8 September 2009 21:17We just posted a new Halloween contest. I know you entered last year and hope that you will this year also.
Thanks,
Crystal
BFTE
Thanks again Crystal. It'd be useful if such colours came with a kind of note to let people easily distinguish between stock and original, but then any consumer buying from MMU companies should probably be reasonably familiar with the wholesale colours as is. I don't have anything against people selling some re-packaged colours because changing it for the sake of it and making it look worse is pointless, as long as they also make the majority of their stuff themselves, and it seems like you do.
8 September 2009 21:22I appreciate your candor, and honest responses instead of the PR spin I got from Lime Crime, thank you.
I'll definitely give the contest a look :]
I think it's safe to say that I'm extremely disappointed with any and all loose mineral eyeshadows as of late; there's no creativity, they're all similar, and they're all overpriced.
9 September 2009 18:52Not to mention for the average or new user, can be difficult to work with as they are loose pigments and will have guaranteed fallout.
When I first heard Xenia was doing a make up line, I was excited. Then, I saw the size of the product, and the price.... Immediately, I was turned off, and disappointed by the fact she made something that's already been made. It seems most people who create their own eyeshadows do the loose eyeshadows; how often do you see sellers of her style selling pressed? Rarely to never. Amy (Shrinkle) is releasing her line next month, and I am excited to see what she's done with it. She's been in development for quite some time.
I wonder if with the cosmetics Xenia even works with a development company, or if she just makes it at home and had the jars printed.... Really, I do wonder such things. The lipsticks look more promising as it appears she did work with a development company.
Ah, my psycho babble.
I heart Shrinkle and am very excited about her line too! I like that she actually addressed the issue of everyone selling the same repackaged stock pigments:
9 September 2009 19:27http://blog.shrinkle.com/sugarpill-cosmetics-sneak-peek/
I'm sure everyone who was disappointed with Lime Crime is excited about the Shrinkle line. It says she spent four years developing all the colors, whereas Lime Crime only spent a month repackaging other companies' pigments before launching.
Xenia's jars are not printed! They are just cheap stickers. She buys stock pigments and puts her sticker on them. =(
Anastasia, I know that your blog doesn't have as big of a following as Doe Deere's. But Lime Crime are in pretty desperate need of good press right now since everyone has figured out their "repackaging and claiming to be unique" scam, so of course they are kissing your ass. As for reviewing the lipstick, just be careful they aren't another brand's lipsticks with her sticker on them, LOL!
10 September 2009 02:56It almost seems like the whole Lime Crime brand is an experiment to see how far you can go with a shoddy product that relies solely on marketing. I'm curious to see how much longer they'll be in business after Shrinkle launches her line!
I'm so excited about Shrinkle's line! Let's just say, I've been following both Shrinkle and Lime Crime for long enough to guess what the difference between them will be.
10 September 2009 10:19Whether its clothes or make up, Shrinkle spends the time developing a well made, unique and exciting product. With Lime Crime it's more about marketing and promotion and hastily putting together copies of an existing idea. It's what they did when they were making clothing, and now 5 years on, make up. As you said before, LC are GREAT at marketing, PR and image. The brand image is wonderful, there's some stunning pictures to back it up, and I'm really tempted by the new lippy, even though I know that over the years LC have engaged in some very dodgy dealings (worse than merely repackaging and refusing to say so)
That's their triumph, if they can make an old cynic like me think "ooh, pretty, wouldn't mind that on my lips"! Though when Sugarpill launches I'm sure they'll outshine LC because the owner has taken the time to research and develop her own unique shades, as well as organise photoshoots and worry about the brand's image. That seems to be all Xenia does with LC, and sometimes, knowing what it is, the whole business seems to be a vanity project to help her network with internet celebrities and play at being a model. She certainly seems to value that over the quality of her product.
I don't know if you've checked the Doe Deere blog posts, but she removed all the old eyeshadow and glitters, and now has the magic eye dust in 10g sizes for $12 instead of the smaller 5g. Got rid of the glitters altogether, though.
1 October 2009 22:05I did splurge for one of the lipsticks, but mostly because I have never seen the shade of turquoise Oh No She Didn't has. Hopefully it gets here in time for Halloween...
Hey Jess, I just took a look.
2 October 2009 19:53They're in 10g jars but are just under 4g of product, and although the glitters have gone she's still selling the magic eye dusts which are just the repackaged TKB stuff. Not an improvement from my view, at all.
I haven't heard from them regarding the lipstick at all, again.
Hi Jessica,
2 October 2009 19:56I wanted to pipe in that Morgana Minerals has 2 amazing shades of Turquoise lipstick: Ice Queen and Turquoise. Ice Queen might be a shade close to what you're looking for.
There are only so many micas made by the manufacturer, but infinite color possibilities by combining them.
16 October 2009 03:18Additives besides the micas are not necessarily just "fillers" many additives add adhesion, slip, and a "backing" to the color, which makes it more intense and long lasting. Especially intense if applied wet.
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